There are quite a few things Jessi Colter, of Im Not Lisa fame, is not besides Lisa.
The country music veteran laughs at the idea that she is an outlaw queen, even though one of her claims to fame is being one of the four participants included on the trending-setting 1976 album Wanted! The Outlaws, along with her husband Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson and Tompall Glaser. Of course she has embraced the affection for that era, to the point that she has spent years producing an upcoming mini-series titled They Called Us Outlaws.
But she doesnt even consider herself country, believing that term belongs more to the South and pointing out that her origins were really in pop. Country accepted me, she says. But Im from Arizona, more tending toward a cowboy/cowgirl feel Im that. But real country, Im not.
Argue that with her, if you will, after hearing her new Margo Price-produced album, Edge of Forever, which not surprisingly is awfully darned country, any hair-splitting aside. Its the first time the 80-year-old performer has done an album that puts her squarely back in that genre (as opposed to spiritual or kids projects) since 2006 and only her second such project since 1984. Its taken a few years since the albums pre-pandemic recording for Edge of Forever to come out. But fans of Colter and certainly those of Price, too, who co-wrote and/or sings on a few of the tracks are pleased the wait didnt last forever.
When Variety caught up with Colter over the phone, she was in Wyoming and close to 9,000 feet above sea level, where her husband has a cabin that he takes their horses in the summer, before bringing them back to their full-time home in her native Arizona in the fall. She discusses the gradual process of friendship through which Price came to produce the new album; why she doesnt feel compelled to keep pursuing her career full-time; how the process of grieving and moving on after Waylon Jennings death in 2002 is captured in the new material; and how listening to Ben Harper helped turn her overcome a personal roadblock.
Its a rare occasion for you to record a new album. You had the Psalms album produced by Lenny Kaye about seven years ago. Before that, your last album of country songs was Out of the Ashes, produced by Don Was in 2006, and going back before that, it was 1984. Youve been quoted as saying you thought you were done doing new albums, before this project.
Well, you know, Ill probably never be done. Ive been working for about eight years on this documentary (They Called Us Outlaws) that will come out next year for about eight years. Good things come, and I say yes when they come, so its not like I have to go looking or scratching for them. But like Carl Smith (the late country singer) said even though he was a generation ahead of me, Waylon got to know him hed just always say he was on vacation. And thats kind of how I am.
It sounds like you really hit it off with Margo Price. Did she have to talk you into doing a new album?
It actually began with Jeremy (Ivey, Prices husband), when I went out to a concert in Phoenix that Margo was playing. That was before she had the string of recordings and hits shes had. I just wanted to take a look at her. Jeremy, in the back room, said to me, Itd be so great to hear you do another album. Then, in 2017, Harper had me do a big book signing on Facebook [for her memoir, An Outlaw and a Lady]. She had just come in from the road and I called her and said, You want to come by and just help me on this? She did, and then we started a friendship.
Then when she was playing Phoenix again, she came to my house. Im out a little. Im geographically undesirable, where I live, out with the horses and the ranches. She came and had me play some songs, and ShooterJennings (her son, the artist and producer)happened to be there visiting with his children. The boys (Ivey and Jennings) wanted me to play, so I got up and played piano with them. I gave Margo a beautiful, long, turquoise chain that I had, and it just started a friendship, where we talked on the phone and visited several times.
Then she called me it was when she was still carrying Ramona; I think she was about seven or eight months along [in 2019] and asked me to come to Nashville and cut some songs. Its taken quite a path to get here (in releasing the album) several years. Various things happened with the engineer, and I said, I really want Shooter to mix this, because hes an expert at that, so that tied it up in a bundle.
Then we looked for the right company. There were three other offers, and interesting offers, but, we decided on Loney (Hutchins) at Appalachia Records. Margo had worked with him somewhat before, and hes a very, very nice fella. I had not really worked with such a small label before and how that operates today, which is a little different, so both of our legal teams drug their foot. This is the long story to a short answer but anyway, we got her done.
A song that Im guessing could be particularly personal to you is Fine Wine, which was co-written by Margo with your daughter, Jenni Eddy Jennings. It at least sounds like it could be your story the story of a widow coming to terms as much as she can in being ready to move on.
Right. Its definitely a young either widow or widower. After that first punch, you just have to decide if youre going to stand still or move forward. And, with Gods help, I was able to move forward. I mean, we worked together; it was a 24/7 relationship. Because I remember looking at the screen that was blank. Blank! And thought, I can either fill it with all kind of things, or I can face it. So, I did.
I remember one day I was in the pool and hearing Ben Harper, who I love, and he would drop songs in that made me know he had lost somebody made me know he had a God relationship and it really moved me. And I thought, Well, maybe music does matter to people. Because this (Ben Harper song) matters to me. You know? Sometimes, whatever you do, you feel like its important enough to pursue, but you dont really have a sense of yourself to other people unless they communicate it.
Margo said, I think that your fans need to hear a current statement, Jessi. And I couldnt really write it, because I wasnt ever one to grieve in public. That wasnt where I could go. But this song describes the loss of a loved one, and Jennifer, of course, knew all the details and put them in there, in Fine Wine. Margo added to it and it turned out to be a beautiful song.
You have to go on. When you lose people you love dearly, if you dont move on, you die with them. So I knew that was important.
Did you lose interest in working as much after Waylon died [in 2002]?
The band wanted to work. I worked for seven years, and then continued to write, continued to appear. But you know, its not like Ive ever had to tour again. And Im glad, because it was great fun with Waylon, and itll never be equal or quite the same. And so I just do special appearances that have meaning to me.
Lets talk about where some of the other material came from, because I know its from a variety of eras or sources, and theres at least one or two songs youve cut before, and some newly written ones. One of these songs is something from a tape that you got from Waylon that had been kicking around in a suitcase, or something like that, right?
Yes. Id love to find the writer, but it was actually on a tape in Waylons briefcase. Im not sure why he handed it to me, and we never discussed it further. I kept that and learned the song and I love it. I named it Lost Love Song. I dont know who wrote it, and I dont know what proof he or she could give me that they wrote it. I just think its a fantastic summation of a deep love. When you fall in love, youre a little, like, in a prison youre stuck. And its such a beautiful description. Id sit down at the piano and play it for no reason. Most artists that I came to know well carry around with them a song that touches their heart and they just want to sing it. Rodney Crowell, whos a great writer, does that with a song called I live on a great blue ball (Defying Gravity, a Jesse Winchester song he recorded with Emmylou Harris). Songs like that just become a haunting thing, I guess, and this song, Lost Love Song, is a haunt to me.
I wasnt sure Margo would agree (to record it), but she did. And she upped the tempo. Shes a drummer! She plays guitar, but she loves percussion. She upped the speed. And frankly, it needs to be more like a Vern Gosdin song thats how I sing it. Its a sad, longing song. Ive always been fascinated with unrequited love. Anyway, it just means a lot to me, and I dont know if the fellow or the girl is living. It was sung by a man (on the demo), but there was no writing on it. Its a mystery.
Maybe somebody will step up to finally claim authorship of this song and you can hope theyll be telling the truth?
Yeah. Well take a lie detector out.
I Wanna Be With You is one of the songs that Margo sings on with you, Its interesting that you first recorded that in 84, and that you wanted to revisit that now. Why was that?
Ill tell you the truth: I Wanna Be With You was written by Basil McDavid, who we called Mack. He was a comedian that had worked with Waylon in the early years, who came to live with us. We sent him to rehab, he came back and stayed for about eight years, and served as security for Shooter when he was just young and we were traveling. You may or may not know Chips Moman, one of the great producers of our era [who produced the 1984 album Rock and Roll Lullaby]. Chips went crazy over that song; he loved that, whereas I just thought it was a little kind of ditty, you know? And Margo liked it so much too. Its a fun little innocent song to sing.
Of course, my early recordings and successes were in pop. And so Mack would say, when Id sing that song, Jessi dont sound so country! And Im not country. You know, country accepted me. But Im from Arizona, more tending toward a cowboy/cowgirl feel Im that. But real country, Im not. You have to be born and raised in that to really understand it. But I loved it and loved the people in it. I think Ken Burns did a great job of showing the early country roots and so forth.
Anyway, so that song, I Wanna Be With You it was always somebody elses idea to do it Chips and then Margo. Isnt that funny?
Any other songs that have special meaning for you on the album?
With or Without You is really a fun song. Because I was watching a friend of mine I wont give you her name whose fiance stood her up at the altar, and then I kind of was there to catch her when she fell and it was hard. So I wrote this song With or Without You and took from Bob Dylans quote, if its not right, it must be wrong. One of my big fans on that song was Stevie Van Zandt. His label (Wicked Cool Records) is punk and so forth, and we talked and he was interested (in a deal). Anyway, Stevie Van Zant, he says, Thats my pick.
And then on Edge of Forever, I actually borrowed from another one of my own songs. Part of that melody was on the first album that Chet Atkins and Waylon cut on me in Nashville (1970s A Country Star Is Born). I would just die to have those earrings I was wearing on the cover; I dont know what happened to them they were like Spanish with onyx and gorgeous. Anyway! One of the songs on there was you know, I wont give you the title, because it doesnt matter, but it was my song. So Im within my copyright rights to rewrite a melody or use it (for the new track).
Lenny Kaye, who produced my last album great guy, do you know Lenny? He is so funny. I was showing him this song that I had just about completed, and I said, Standing on the edge of forever, and he said, You need to say its now or never. Because I dont necessarily rhyme. I write more in prose. But now or never? Ah, OK, that means I gotta give him an ultimatum. So, we did that. It was just great fun. And its a push/pull song and kick butt. I like that song, and Margo really liked it, and wanted to name the album after it.
Cant Nobody Do Me Like Jesus, that song is a killer. I heard it in the Black congregation that I worshipped in for years in Nashville. James Cleveland originally wrote this song and I rewrote it, but didnt take any credit because theres no need to. Its just an incredible, great spiritual. Shooter and Misty (Brooke Swain, his wife, are on it) Theres certain songs like Everybody Should Get Stoned, or Youve Been Gone So Long that need a gang sound, not just one, two, three voice but as many voices as you can stack. I loved how it turned out.
I hope it brings joy and fun to other peoples lives. Because these are all things that a lot of people walk through. In a way were all standing on the edge of forever, to be in life and have all that we have and enjoy it. Were standing on the edge of the next life.
Some of the rhythms of the album unmistakably sound like Waylon rhythms, or songs from the Outlaws era. Was that Margos influence, wanting that in there, or just what feels familiar to you?
I love that rhythm. I found out its what they call the cotton-picking rhythm from the South, somewhere in Mississippi or something. I didnt even know what it was or why it was, but it communicated with me.
Theres a young audience that has an interest in you, even though you dont tour. It will probably increase when the documentary about the outlaw era comes out next year.
Im glad the young people are looking for what happened, where, when, and so forth. The 28-year-olds have no knowledge, but I find and I hang out with them, because Shooter has been such a great son to me. He was coming up in L.A. and hanging out with different, really important people in the music business, and I got to be out there, trying to teach some of these young bands about Roger Miller and Invitation to the Blues and so forth. I didnt always know what they thought, but they thought I was the outlaw queen. I come from that era, yes. But with my gospel roots and the sound of a ballad and the spiritual, theres two sides probably of where I come from.
I told Appalachia Records, You know, Its going to be hard to do press on me. And by the way, I appreciate you and your position, because we need you to give people a bump. You need to bump them and kind of wake them up to some things the younger generations dont have, although theyre looking. And the phases (of life) are so surprising what comes and what you draw. If your attitude is good, you draw good things So I appreciate the call. I wish I had been reading Variety more; I havent seen it in a while. But its because Ive been on vacation.